The New Hungarian Guard Continues to Initiate New Members

Contrary to expectations, the New Hungarian Guard – a splinter-group of the paramilitary arm organized by Hungary’s far-right Jobbik party – did not hold a huge demonstration of force on March 17 on Budapest’s Heroes Square. Approximately a hundred new members were initiated at the event; according to a press release by the Hungarian police, “due to the involvement of the police, lining up in formation and oath-taking did not take place.” A small group of anti-fascist demonstrators were also present to protest.

It’s a bizarre opening, but to my defense, I have taken the summary from a typical report circulating about the event in the Hungarian press (the same understated tone is hit in the coverage of Euronews, which has video footage of the event).

There is absolutely no excuse for getting complacent about Hungary’s guard problems. At the same time, there also does not seem to be much harm in highlighting the absurdity of this mighty event.

News portals of the extreme right were burning with anticipation about this year’s guard initiation event, hailing it as the long-awaited opportunity to return Jobbik’s paramilitary wing to the glorified awe invoked by their collective presence at the Hungarian national monument in years past. On March 15, 2009, during the politically implosive period of street protest, this is what the Hungarian Guard’s initiation looked like:

Guard initiation on Heroes Square on March 15 2009.

In comparison, this year’s new additions to the Hungarian Guard’s successor organization sat on the ground throughout the entire ceremony fearing that standing up might be interpreted as unlawful activity by the police and would lead to their arrest. The new members wore uniform clothing, though not a uniform similar to the Hungarian Guard’s. The oaths were taken in a kneeling position, and, again in order to avoid police intervention, rather than being stated aloud, its text was recited silently by each new member during the ceremony.

Guard initiation on Heroes Square on March 17 2012, photo by Andrei Stavila. For many more pictures taken at the scene, see his blog post at this link.

The botched demonstration of far-right might is due to a number of legal developments regarding the continued existence of the Hungarian guard. Court battles have led to ever more precise delineations between explicitly forbidden vs. non-actionable, tolerable and lawful guard activities.

While under the previous Hungarian government, the far-right used to show its defiance of the public order through street confrontations, the increased guard activities of the last few months indicate willingness on the part of the guard’s leadership to co-operate with the Hungarian authorities in order to avoid clashes and arrests.

On March 15, police and extremists were similarly co-operative with one another. As this video captured by the Hungarian news blog Egyenlítő TV shows, a group of neo-Nazi protesters – members of the 64 Counties Youth Movement – decided to break away from their counter-protest of the anti-government demonstration, and to march on the Hungarian offices of the IMF. Though they were facing the riot police at the time they announced their plan (and though the press following them gets there in time to take a picture of them entering the building), they still have plenty of time in the lobby to argue at length with security guards and to set off pyrotechnics. At 4:43, a man is overheard saying that “the police is coming in,” and all of the protesters manage to scurry away just in time to avoid the police contingent arriving to the building. Prior to their exit from the building, the police merely stood by as their leader gave them a stirring speech ending in chants of “we will win.”

The New Hungarian Guard attempted to hold initiations connected to the Hungarian national holiday, March 15, in last year as well, but the event came to an abrupt end due to the intervention of the police. Most of the fines for the illegal activities on that day did not stand up in court, however.

Court battles since the 2009 ban of the Hungarian guard have pitted two disparate legal arguments against each other. The guardists would prefer to frame the question of whether there is anything legally objectionable about the existence of uniformed paramilitaries in terms of their constitutional right to free assembly. They continue to see the conflict as a conflict between the individual and the state, though they also continue to describe their ultimate aims as directed at extra-democratic goals (the parliamentary party whose chairman, Gábor Vona, remains the chief co-ordinator of Hungarian guard activities described his party in a recent speech this January as a party “not democratic” in its spiritual center).

In the meanwhile, Hungarian law has taken the side of the argument that the exercise of such constitutional rights may not violate the constitutional right of others. Surprisingly, this seems to be a weakness rather than the strength of the ban, leading to concessions of much of the forbidden territory in actual practice. As members of the guards who have continued to assemble in spite of the ban have proven, it is possible to operate a militia without being found in the act of violating the rights of others (a more detailed explanation of how guards activities remain protected by court opinions, as well as on Vona’s remark quoted above may be found in this post).

Of course one would suppose that there really is no point in refraining from making some kind of a restrictive impact on one’s target in actuality – the Hungarian far-right’s scape-goats remain the Roma population; rather than being anti-Muslim, they are known for their anti-semitism – if one has already decided to become a guard member. But I am only surmising that this, and the law of course does not recognize “surmising” (not that it should, as long as we want to remain on a democratic footing). Surmising  this much, however, especially since this specific conjecture is based on Jobbik’s own rhetoric, might be a good reason not to get too complacent about Hungary’s guard problem too soon.

This entry was posted in English-language Hungarian news, Hungarian far-right militias, Hungary, IMF, New Hungarian Guard and tagged . Bookmark the permalink.

28 Responses to The New Hungarian Guard Continues to Initiate New Members

  1. Karl Pfeifer says:

    There was a time, when Viktor Orbán bragged he could dissolve the Hungarian Guard with two slaps in the face. Orbán let out the evil Jobbik spirit from the bottle and will not even try to push it back. The reason is very simple. Should he loose his majority he could remain prime-minister in coalition with Jobbik or with their tacit agreement.

    • Daniel says:

      Well, I guess that makes sense.

      Viktor Orban and Fidesz invented and created jobbik to get the votes of the liberals and leftist. Obviously.

      I mean he and Fidesz would never be so stupid, to create a political power, that would draw support from a right-wing party. Obviously.

      I mean after the 8 years of left-liberal majority in Hungary, with the doubling of the unemployment rate, rising crime rate, debt and years of spending cuts without real growth topped by open corruption it is Fidesz’s and Viktor Orbans fault, that a radical political power could gain so much support. Obviously.

      Let’s face it: the leftist governments did everything in their power to stop the far right. They managed to build a blooming economy, a free and open democracy which protected the basic rights and the well-being of the citizens. They were open to criticism and consulted the people ahead of major changes. They restored the faith of people in the democratic institutions: they didn’t attack the National Bank, or the Constitutional Court or judges, or members of the press, or used the Secret Services against the opposition. They never lied to the people, because they were true democrats and as such even though they were elected for 4 years they still took responsibility, when people turned away from them. They were truly statesman, who managed to paint a great picture about Hungary all around the world, especially in the neighboring countries. People were just happy. Satisfied. Justice roll down like waters and righteousness like an ever-flowing stream.

      And then… And then came this populist Viktor Orban and his Fidesz, who made this amazing government look bad. He was so radical that the radicals went to the new party, the Jobbik. Obviously.

      But I really have to disappoint you: although you were able to see through all those measures Fidesz has taken to distract the people, including a law forbiding the garda to to assemble, you didn’t get the whole picture. This guy did:

      http://nepszava.com/2012/03/velemeny/bartus-laszlo-a-vatikan-tamadasa-az-unio-elfoglalasara.html

  2. janos444 says:

    Agreed, Karl. They are in cahoots. I have not the faintest doubt in my mind that, should it come to that, Orbán would not hesitate for a moment to ally up with Jobbik. Cooperation between the two is everyday reality anyway. Re the EU, Fidesz is practically following the agenda of Jobbik. Orbán’s notorious March 15 speech may easily have been written by Jobbik speeechwriter. In Parliament, Jobbik openly supports the government on most issues. Fidesz is much the same thing as Jobbik, same ideology,same voter base, minus the open anti-Semitiism, and plus the money and the business interests.

    • Daniel says:

      Well, I guess you are right. Fidesz and Jobbik are basically the same thing.

      Although I have to disappoint you a little bit: Jobbik votes almost every time openly with the left. Or the left votes almost every time openly with Jobbik. Hell I don’t even know who wears the pants in that relationship :) The left openly offered a cooperation with jobbik in the next election.

      The Left. Openly. Offered cooperation. To Jobbik.

      I’m listening.

      “Orbán’s notorious March 15 speech may easily have been written by Jobbik speeechwriter.”

      Really? you think so? Then why the hell are people voting for jobbik? BTW: you really think, that at the last election about 70% of Hungarians voted for a far-right political power? Or that about 65% of the Hungarian voters would vote for a far right political power in an election next week?

      And an added question: Fidesz gained about half a million votes in 2010 compared to 2006 or 2002. So, my question is: what do you think, where did Jobbik got it’s voters? they got like 800 000. How came, that they were especially strong in the former strongholds of the socialists?

  3. Pingback: Budapest: inauguration of the Hungarian Guard’s new members « Andrei Stavilă's Photography

  4. Daniel says:

    I know, that blog is to focus on the far right, but I really would like to have an entry on the latest terrorist charges against gyurcsány.

    I mean I would be really interested what the readers of this blog think of it.

    • There’s no reason to be so secretive about it, Daniel, this is a free blog, you can tell readers the story yourself.
      It’s actually pertinent to the post: Hungary’s state attorney, Péter Polt, is looking into terrorism charges against ex-prime minister F. Gyurcsány. The supposed act of terrorism took place during Gyurcsány’s March 15 speech, when he said that his party, the Democratic Coalition, is planning on placing the Constitutional Court under blockade. This is an act of terrorism because unlike Jobbik and his paramilitaries – who btw are not looking at terrorism charges even if they bring an entire village to the brink of ethnic conflict – Gyurcsány wanted to get an official organ of the state to do something. He said he would use a blockade against the Constitutional Court “unless” they do what the Democratic Coalition wants (they want the court to take a case involving a review of Hungary’s fundamental laws and the way in which appointments are being handled by the current government).
      What makes it even better intrigue is that this time around the Hungarian government is being very careful about not doing the witch-hunt all on their own: the complaints were made by a guy not too well known in politics, who used to be allied with the Orbán government during their first term in office (his name is Balázs Gulyás). I’m sure that if this is going somewhere, he’ll come to be known as a private individual. The civil sphere himself. He also slapped on a complaint of “inciting to hatred,” since Gyurcsány also had some harsh words about the tax privileges of clerical personnel.
      It’s right out of the playbook used by any of the iron-fisted statesmen (I don’t have a page number for it in my copy of Machiavelli, but I’m sure it’s in there too): water down crucial definitions until they become absolutely meaningful – that way they can’t be used against you. Since the Hungarian government can’t defend its cosy relationship with the far-right thugs, why not twist the meaning of words like terrorism and make the other person look like a thug too? If they really had any intention to do anything against Vona and the guard, they have both the legal and the enforcement route to deal with the problem. But Karl and Janos are right: why would they want to alienate them? This voting base would be the easiest to turn should their new electoral law somehow still did not automatically give them a reelection.
      Btw, this also should be an answer to the question of why previously socialist precincts have turned over to Jobbik. Because of the shared voting base between Jobbik and Fidesz. The precincts where the Socialists used to be strong tend to have weaker party structures by Fidesz – Jobbik could come in and sweep them. Which is not to deny that there were Socialists voters who did vote Jobbik (studies show that there had been liberal voters who turned to Jobbik, as well as Fidesz voters, in the last election) – but this is another story. It just shows that Jobbik’s message of radical anti-democratic regime change resonates a lot more with many Hungarians than we thought; it has so much of an appeal that voters are willing to join in the racism and anti-semitism if that’s what it takes to support it. Which is why Fidesz shares the responsibility for this problem with the Socialists: Jobbik’s appeal has been on the increase since 2010. If there will be free elections in Hungary in 2014, everything that Daniel so sarcastically writes about the Socialists will probably have to be repeated about Fidesz too.

      • Daniel says:

        “everything that Daniel so sarcastically writes about the Socialists will probably have to be repeated about Fidesz too.”

        wanna bet? :D

  5. Karl Pfeifer says:

    Daniel, before you try to be funny you should know some basic facts.
    Gábor Vona was when he started his political career in the “polgári körök” und there is a photo showing him together with Viktor Orbán.
    Please do not try the old communist tactic to put something in my mouth which was not said or written by me. I did not say that Fidesz and Jobbik are the same thing. But that Orbán let out the evil spirit of Jobbik from the bottle.
    Yes of course Fidesz has helped Gaudi Nagy and Mrs. Morvai to pretend to be defenders of Human Rights.
    And yes János 444 is completely right. The March 15 speech of Orban has all the qualities of Jobbik rhetoric.

    • Daniel says:

      Yes, Vona was part of the “polgári körök” (civic circles) of Fidesz. But not for long. You know, why? Because he did not fit in.

      If he would have, he would be a Fidesz supporter. But nobody in Fidesz wanted him and he didn´t want the Fidesz.

      And I have absolutely no idea, how fidesz let the evil spirit out. If you mean, that Fidesz wasn´t enough radical, racist, far-right to be a home for people like Vona and his friend and so they had to found a whole new party… Well, I guess in that case I´m actually happy about that.

      Not happy at all, that about 20% of people think, that their solutions are the right one. But happy, that those who think, do not support Fidesz.

      I don´t think that Viktor Orbans last speech was a good one. But on a day, where we celebrate those brave Hungarians, who stood up and gave their lives for our freedom a soverignity it was absolutely OK.

  6. janos444 says:

    “The Left. Openly. Offered cooperation. To Jobbik.”

    Could you, please, elaborate on that, Daniel?

    • Daniel says:

      They proposed the idea of a joint electoral list with all oppositional powers on it (including jobbik) at the 2014 elections to oust Fidesz, restore the old constitution and then write out new elections.

      • janos444 says:

        Oh, yes, I was almost 100 per cent sure that this would bee your big ‘trump card”. Sorrry to disappoint you, dear Daniel, but it is not, and for several reasons.

        (1) LMP is not “The Left”. I don’t know what makes a the smallest party in Parliament with a near neglectible voter support, busily distancing itself from the Socialists and DK, qualify as “The Left” in your book, but the Left is what LMP is not.

        (2) LMP has never made an “offer to cooperate”. They did not even make as much as an overture to Jobbik. What happened was that a single LMP leader raised “on a purely theoretical level”, or, in his own words, “a thought experiment”, the possibility of what he called a “limited, technical coalition”, the only joint objective of which would have been to oust the ruling FIDESZ-KDNP alliance. As soon as this was accomplished, the “technical coalition” would have dissolved itself and launch new elections, now ” for real”. Thus, joint government (and therefore “co-operation”) never even came into the question. .

        (3) Whatever it was, the “thought experiment” made by Gábor Karácsony (why not call him by name?) the opposition drawn by the idea from every quarter on the non-Fidesz side, including other members and leaders of his own party, was so fierce that he himself withdrew it in no time.

        Funny that you nevertheless call this event “Openly offered cooperation.”

  7. Daniel says:

    A short comment, if you allow.

    I do understand, that for most of you Hungary right now is scary. I mean you have Fidesz, which for you is just antidemocratic, and radical, and populist, and mid-WWs ideologist, and autocrat, with a 2/3 majority still way ahead in the polls. And then you have jobbik, which is like Fidesz, just even worse, slowly becoming the second most popular political power. You hate to see what is going on and don´t really see, how it is going to be better. I mean there was a “wise” hungarian who said, that it is hard to build a great socialism with 8 million fascists. Those, who don´t consider Fidesz and jobbik a democratic power have basically the same opinion. Only with democracy this time :)

    Anyway, I think it helps you sleep and gives you a piece of comfort: if any democratic rights were in danger in Hungary, we Hungarians were the first one “rising up”. Not many nations can teach Hungarians anything about fighting for freedom. We didn´t arrive at our democracy by accident, we didn´t get it as a gift. And I´m not going to go back to too far into the past to some historical event with no real relevance here, just to prove my point.

    Just a couple of years. in 2006 the left-liberal political powers won the elections. By a huge margin. The leftist mszp has almost gained the majority alone. Excepting a couple of right-wing strongholds they had the majority almost everywhere. Just 4 years later this political power was stripped of any political power, giving their opposition 84% of the votes. Once again for emphasis: those parties, who declared prior to the elections that they are under no circumstances going to cooperate with the current government parties received 84% of the votes.

    And I know, you would say this is due to bad economical changes, or mszp´s bad reforms, or Fideszes populism. But I don´t think so: between 1994-1998 people lost much more money due to tax raises and the very high inflation. the left still got more than 40%. Fidesz and his “populism” has also been around for a long time :) The difference was the autumn of 2006. the use of the police force against demonstrators. The bloody headed mp left unconscious by the policeman and the way the government handled the issue. That was the true difference. That was a point of no return for mszp and the liberals. You can try to twist and turn the events of that farce, but the Hungarians deep down know exactly how important freedom is.

    No government in Hungary could ever impose any ruling (no matter what parliamentary majority), that violates the freedom of press, that weakens democracy or violates fundamental rights. If anybody would, they would end up, where the liberals have: on the garbage-heap of history. If anything of what you accuse Fidesz of would turn out to be eventually true, no electoral system, no police force and no media control would ever be able to keep Fidesz in power in Hungary.

    And one short notice: the former parties of left-liberal government still haven´t gained any support, even though 2 years have passed. This is not because Fidesz is doing a perfect job. But because nobody actually believes, that those, who were in power at the events of 2006 are worried about democracy. And it is also very hard to believe claims of censorship, if you reading about it in the same media (print, radio or tv), who were talking 2 years ago about the “fascist opposition”. Or believing in the violation of the fundamental rights of assembly, when at very moment you are at a rally, secured by the police. And since they lack any other political agenda, idea or strategy, there is not much to gain…

    • “if any democratic rights were in danger in Hungary, we Hungarians were the first one “rising up”. Not many nations can teach Hungarians anything about fighting for freedom.”
      Wonderful. Daniel, you get an A+ in patriotic fervor, and an F in political reasoning. Here’s what the problem is with your optimism: in a _reasonable_ system of government, there are multitudes of ways in which the population can express its will through its government. Free elections, recalls, constitutional brakes and the like exist so that revolting against the government is _not_ the only way to make a popular impact on the direction in which one’s country is headed. So your government has removed all of these, but never mind that, because we’re all very happy about it. And please keep in mind that if we are no longer happy, we still have the option to revolt.

      It’s the most awful plan one can come up with! (Not to mention the logical problem: you see, you always have the option to revolt. Since Hobbes and Locke, since the very beginning of modern democratic theory, the problem has always been to create a regime where people had options other than overthrowing the government.) Which is why this mentality puts you at about the same level of enlightenment as, well, the political regimes prior to the Enlightenment. Much before, in fact it puts you among the supporters of absolutism, but you’re probably too sensitive about the use of that term.

      Which is really the point of most of the criticism Hungary gets nowadays. The problem is not that people can’t sleep – the world will go on with its merry course regardless of what happens in Hungary. Instead, the reaction is incredulousness. Incredulousness about why you people are so excited about throwing out the wisdom of the centuries and returning to the Middle Ages. That, and there is also something absurd in how you can be so _unlearned_, if you allow me the expression, to think that this is a novel and progressive idea.

      • Daniel says:

        first of all: the people now have the same rights to get rid of their government or to show their disapproval, as they did before. The same tools, the same possibilities.

        You know, the exact tools we had after 2006. I´m mean ca. 80% of the people wanted to get rid of the government, but couldn´t. because they stayed on and on and on and on, without any real legitimacy, popular support, democratic power, political capital or credibility. But you know, it still was a democracy. That is why in 2010 they paid for that. And obviously democracy shocked the hell out of you.

        (recalls? wtf are you talking about? :))

        second: rising up was in quotation marks. And in the next paragraph I showed an example, how we “rise up” against powers, who misuse their power. We, Hungarians put them on the garbage heap of history. And We, Hungarians are going to decide at the next elections, if Fidesz goes on in building a better country or maybe someone else should get a chance.

        That is democracy. And instead of painting the whole country and the people bad just because they didn´t decide as you wanted them to maybe you should think about what went wrong. Why people (and I use that word again, because everything other would be an understatement) hate you.

        Oh, yeah. One more thing to add. The new Basic Law of Hungary has introduced one of the most important constitutional brakes into our system: no government should ever be able to raise the level of the debt as high as the left and the liberals did. And this is a good thing. A very good thing.

      • Come on now, you don’t seriously believe this rhetorical posturing, do you? In 2010, the majority of those who voted voted for Fidesz (they were not 80% of the population, they weren’t even two-third of the population, they weren’t even 53% of the population – they were 53% of the votes cast in the election). But even if they were 99% of the population, that’s still not a revolt, it’s just what happens under democratic constitutions. It’s also something not likely to happen in Hungary very soon. Not because Fidesz is such a lovely party, but because, with their new electoral law, they would have won every single election that has ever been held in Hungary since 1990. I believe this is why we are talking about revolts and the pride of the Hungarian people: because what you’re saying is that this is a minute problem, after all, when fed up, Hungarians have a good track record of revolting.

        Recall is a mechanism used in some constitutions that allows for “calling back” democratically elected officers. E.g. if a certain percentage of the population votes for the measure on a special referendum (that’s how Schwarzenegger became governor of California). Hungary does not have it in its constitution.

        The point of course remains that there are more civilized ways of “making them pay for it,” or of “putting them on the garbage heap of history,” if you prefer to put it in such noble-minded and lofty terms.

        On the other hand, putting a debt ceiling in your constitution is not what’s known as a “constitutional brake.” Daniel, you really can’t just make things up as you go. I mean you can, of course, in the sense that no one is going to stop you from doing it, but taking a course on constitutional theory would be much more useful.

  8. Paul says:

    Well, thanks Daniel, it’s good to know everything is OK on Planet Hungary.

    Perhaps now you could give me a hand? I have some lead here that I want to turn into gold…

  9. Karl Pfeifer says:

    Daniel you become very emotional and try to convince us with pseudopatriotic phrases and
    neglect at the same time the fact, that prior to the police excess in 2006 a nazi riffraff tried to burn down the Center of MTV.
    The fact, that the opposition parties have not gained strength in the past two years, does not say that the policy of Orbán-Matolcsy is good for Hungary.
    The problem for most Hungarians is growing powerty, growing unemployment and worsening of social conditions. At the same time Orbán is spoiling those oligarchs, who supported him and Fidesz by letting them pay a flat tax. The fierce nationalistic speeches are not changing the fact, that many Hungarians are hungry and must be afraid to loose their habitation.
    Orbán-Matolcsy are leading Hungary into an abyss. That is the opinion of a close friend of Viktor Orbán. Please read what Attila Szalay-Berzeviczy has said in an interview with Magyar Hirlap which you can’t qualify as leftwing or liberal:
    http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/gazdasag/futunk_az_esemenyek_utan.html

    I am looking forward to your reaction

    • Daniel says:

      No political power defended the criminals who tried to burn down the mtv headquarters. Those 50-100 hooligans were well known from soccer-games. There was no difference there: parties of the right, the left and the President himself were very clear in their statements. But the left did defend and honored those, who were responsible for the police brutality and discredited those hundreds of thousands who were peacefully demonstrating all across the country by calling them mob. That was and is still the difference.

      About the article: I’m very happy about this opinion. It basically discredits most of the claims of the left: no free press, the press of the right is controlled by Viktor Orban, there are no critical voices on the right, nobody can/dares/is allowed to speak up against the government etc… :) It is hard to claim, that the economy was a success-story so far, thats for sure. And I’m pretty sure, we could have done better. But as a whole, I can live with it. Especially if we consider what the left has done for 8 years. The unemployment stopped rising, the deficit and the debt are lower than before and we have the flat tax and the economy is growing. Don’t get me wrong: These are not real success stories, just a few points, that I can live with. I’m just wondering where you (people who are worried about the economy of Hungary) were, when our debt rose from 53% to over 80% in just 8 years. or when our unemployment rate DOUBLED. Or when our deficit was way, way over 3% for 8 consecutive years. Or when banks in Hungary started rolling out credits in foreign currencies, like it was water. I mean yeah, maybe Fidesz is not handling all of that mess well. But even you had to admit: it was a big pile of mess, that waited for them.

    • Daniel says:

      Yeah, one more thing. And I’m going here totally off-topic. If you consider my opinion “pseudopatriotic”, than we have a problem.

      I mean we can disagree, and I’m fine with it. We can see the world differently, have different ideas about anything, I can respect that. I also understand if you don’t think of Hungarians as this freedom loving, brave and tolerant people, as I think of them. Maybe not have the same faith in their judgement, as I do.

      And I’m even ok, if you consider some (or most) of my arguments just as patriotic phrases. What I do have a problem with is, if you think this is “pseudo”. I can assure you: i have absolutely no reason, to write or to say anything, I don’t agree with or that i don’t consider right.

      So if you don’t like or don’t agree with my opinion about Hungary or Hungarians, you can of course say that instead of using real arguments all I can do is come up with simple and populist patriotic phrases. But even you have to face it: there are still people, who actually believe in this and in the Hungarian people. These are those who don’t need to pretend false, insincere or pseudo patriotism.

  10. Karl Pfeifer says:

    Daniel I did not write that Hungary is a dictatorship. So do not see the fact, that in Magyar Hirlap a realistic interview is published as evidence for your view, that Hungary can be qualified as a normal European democracy. By the way for every moderate article in Magyar Hirlap you can find 3-4 articles which no conservative paper outside Hungary would publish.
    Nationalistic pseudopatriotic rhetoric can still mobilize a lot of Hungarians. But it can’t change the failure of Orbán-Matolcsy economic policy. Good to know that you can live with it. However so many Hungarians can’t. Many – especially young people – just leave the country.

    • Daniel says:

      8 years of leftist policy left the economy of Hungary in ruins. Debt everywhere you looked without any reserves. Anybody with a stick would have done a better job, than they did. Including Matolcsy. I´m not saying, he is doing a perfect one, but a way better than his predecessors did.

      And to be honest: I think patriotic rhetoric can mobilize almost all of Hungary. Especially if it is couple with patriotic leadership and lawmaking. As I already wrote: we are a decent, but proud nation.

      well, at least most of us. I´m pretty sure that thecontrarianhungarian is not very proud of his country :)

      • Karl Pfeifer says:

        It is boring this mantra about the past 8 years. Last year 1.200 MDs left Hungary, the situation of Hospitals is catastrophic, the economic situation is worsening since Orban is primeminister. Do you really believe, that with pseudopatriotic declarations “We are a decent”, but proud nation” those facts disappear?
        In what way is Hungary in a better economic situation than during the time Bajnai was the primeminister?

  11. Daniel says:

    yeah, I mean i try to formulate as clear as possible, but obviously you don´t really like reading. Is it so hard to understand that putting political powers on the garbage heap of history in a democracy IS exactly what happened in 2010 at the elections and not some revolt or uprising and awaits every political power which behaves as the “liberals” did? (I´m not saying this as a threat, much more as a hope). And what was NOT clear about that sentence: “I´m mean ca. 80% of the people wanted to get rid of the government, but couldn´t. ” At the elections in 2010 the opposition received about 84%.

    “Here’s what the problem is with your optimism: in a _reasonable_ system of government, there are multitudes of ways in which the population can express its will through its government. Free elections, RECALLS{…}So your government has removed all of these”

    “Not because Fidesz is such a lovely party, but because, with their new electoral law, they would have won every single election that has ever been held in Hungary since 1990.”

    Duuuuude, seriously? :D

  12. Karl Pfeifer says:

    Daniel watch the backside of Hungarian nationalism
    Hungary is leading between ten European countries as far as antisemitism is concerned
    http://nol.hu/belfold/20120321-magyarorszag_a_listavezeto

  13. Pingback: Nationalfeiertag in Ungarn – Rechtsextreme entern Bankcenter – Gardevereidigung auf dem Heldenplatz (+ Presseschau) « Pusztaranger

  14. GW says:

    Aren’t these “guards” a violation of the Paris Peace Treaty of 1947, under which the government was required to undertake measures to prevent the resurgence of fascist organizations or any others “whether political, military or semi-military, whose purpose it is to deprive the people of their democratic rights”?

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s