Political Debate in the Homeland (#2): The Behavior of Colonialists

The unique style of political debate in Hungary was already given ample space on this blog in last week’s post about pro-government journalist Zsolt Bayer’s television show. Continuing what might end up an entire series, this post introduces another talk show, which, just like Bayer’s show, is also a regularly scheduled program on Echo Television.

The owner of Echo Television, Gábor Széles, was one of the main organizers of the January 21 pro-government Békemenet (Peace March). He teamed up in organizing the event with Bayer and another journalist, András Bencsik, who leads Demokrata Kör (Democratic Circle, or A Circle of Democrats), the show to be introduced below.

Jan.21 2012: Pro-government rally behind the message "We will not be a colony!"

Within days after the airing of Bayer’s show on the same topic, Bencsik and his discussion partners also weighed in on the European Parliament’s February 9 hearing on Hungary. Though the following excerpt is curiously short on actual details – notice that not once does the content of the hearing in the European Parliament become part of the discussion – it makes up for it by being informative in another respect. The Peace March featured 400,000 marching behind a banner with the words “We Will Not Be a Colony.” The discussants on Bencsik’s show take up this theme again, providing further clarification not only on what such a demand might entail, but also on the kind of political culture in which this statement is widely popular.

Besides Bencsik, the 30-minute television show featured Imre Kerényi (the Hungarian government’s commissioner for government art, see e.g. here), Ádám Pozsonyi and Zsuzsa Hernádi. The show can be found at this link:

http://www.echotv.hu/videotar.html?mm_id=148&v_id=12156  (segment starts at 6:40).

For those not familiar with what took place during the hearing: reports of what happened at the hearing could be found for example herehere, or here. The transcript of the show was prepared in collaboration with Puszta Ranger.

AB: We do have friends, thank god, though not everyone, because this – we were debating among ourselves [how to pronounce it] – this lady by the name of Nellie Krőz, Kroz or Kruz, she did not appear to be our friend in the Brussels commission.

IK: Let’s just call her Auntie Nellie, no? Auntie Nellie, or Nellie.

AB: Auntie Nellie is not our friend.

IK: But she was likeable.

AB: Really? You liked her?

IK: My feeling was that from one utterance to another there was more and more hatred dripping out of her. And I don’t get this. How can such a well-prepared politician woman afford this? Because she is Dutch? Is that a superior race? Or because she is the European Commissioner? Well, the day after tomorrow Navracsics [Hungary's deputy prime minister] could be European Commissioner. Or Szájer [Hungarian member of the European Parliament] could be European Commissioner. They could switch places, [so] how could she afford it?

ZsP: Perhaps she can do it because she’s on the left and a liberal. Is that a higher form of life?

IK: It is likely that that’s what’s going on.

AB: Or she thinks that.

IK: But what is really interesting is that her face, because the camera is a clever thing, the camera shows this, there were such emotions displayed on her face – this is not meant as reading anything into it – from one minute to another it got tighter and uglier. This poor Nellie just got uglier and uglier.

ZsP: Did she become an Ágnes Heller [philosopher, who also testified before the EP on previous occasions]?

IK: Yes, she went Ágnes Heller, that’s precisely it. And she started giving orders, and I’m very happy that Mr. Deputy Prime Minister Navracsics said that we will agree with everything, what my oath, what is not against my oath, and what isn’t against the spirit of the Hungarian constitution, If, on this point, Mr. Navracsics acquiesces, then that would have done wrong to Hungarian dignity, as well as to the state of my psyche.

AB: It was stunning. To me, the sentence that was stunning is that when they come out of a face-to-face meeting, and they are saying, of course, what they are saying, and then this is what this woman says, that well Mr. Navracsics, you didn’t say to me the same thing face-to-face that you’re saying now. It is utterly evident that when the two of them sit down, then [there is a] private person and [a] public person. It is possible for one to say over coffee: well, you know, the truth is that, well, I’m not sure whether this is how I would have done it, but oh well, it doesn’t matter, now this is the situation. But when she is before the public, then she must speak with the discipline deriving from her office. And this woman… well, this was some gossiping lacking any standard!

IK: This is colonizing behavior.

AB: Yes. To humiliate.

IK: It is colonizing behavior to humiliate the opponent, colonizers have been doing it since Byzantium. What kind of colonizers have we had? There was Byzantium, the German-Roman Empire, the Turkish world-empire, the Habsburg Empire, Hitler’s Third Reich, the Soviet Union, and now there is the EU. And they all want the same thing. Great powers always want to colonize small people, and the indigenous to be colonized must be humiliated, this is the technology. Now Chancellor Metternich [of the Habsburg Empire in 1848] says: don’t you pass any domestic policies, I’ll help you. And Ambassador Antropov [of the Soviet Union in 1956] says: don’t you pass any domestic policies, I’ll help you. And Auntie Nellie says, in the European Union, don’t you pass laws, we’ll write it. Thank you very much, we don’t want this.

ZsP: I think that the Dutch, and I don’t mean to offend them, just on occasion of [mention of] the lady, they shouldn’t be so high and mighty. Because they humiliate themselves, precisely through their own liberalism. According to my informations, one half of Dutch towns are already Muslim, so in effect they are going to be at the brink of disappearing in ten to twenty years.

IK: What I heard is that a politician was murdered in the Netherlands in broad daylight on the street.

ZsH: Yes.

AB: Pym Fortuyn. You heard this correctly.

IK: This did not happen in Hungary, but in the Netherlands, where Nellie Kroes is the ace of trumps.

AB: Auntie Nellie.

IK: Auntie Nellie.

This entry was posted in András Bencsik, Békemenet (Peace March), Echo TV, European Parliament, Hungary, Imre Kerényi, Neelie Kroes, Western criticism of Hungary. Bookmark the permalink.

16 Responses to Political Debate in the Homeland (#2): The Behavior of Colonialists

  1. Karl Pfeifer says:

    Thanks for translating and publishing this rambling invective.
    On Nov 3,2009 I’ve published on Bencsik & Pozsonyi the following:
    One of the worst antisemitic and racist rags is the Budapest weekly Magyar Demokrata: favoured by Viktor Orbán the chief of the conservative Fidesz opposition party.
    The editor in chief of this far-right weekly is András Bencsik, sponsor of the infamous Hungarian Guard. He started his career working for Népszabadság the official daily of the communist party during the Kádár Period responsible for party news. It would take too long to explain how a dedicated communist like Bencsik became editor-in-chief of Magyar Demokrata (MD) and a Hungarian Guard activist.
    Orbán asked often his followers to support Bencsik’s rag in spite of its obnoxious character.
    One of the authors of MD is Ádám Pozsonyi, who two weeks ago published a call to the readers to steal books and to destroy them.
    Ádám Pozsonyi argues openly that the Hungarian “intellectual life is under foreign direction” and that “our political and intellectual elite is foreign”. His conclusion is that his readers should act as follows:
    “Let’s form commando groups of 3-4 persons and comb the libraries and let’s steal and then destroy the tasteless and cancerous centre of the left liberal traitors to our Homeland. If it is not possible to smuggle them out, we should tear or scrawl all over the pages.”
    The unsuccessful scribbler Ádám Pozsonyi is also full of envy against those Hungarian writers who are recognised and translated into other languages. His venom, in particular, is reserved for three “traitors to the homeland” who are all Jewish:
    “Spiró is a scab, Konrád I curse, and Nádas makes me want to puke”

    http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/hungarian-%E2%80%9Cpatriot%E2%80%9D-wants-to-destroy-books/

    http://hurryupharry.org/2009/11/03/hungarian-%E2%80%9Cpatriot%E2%80%9D-wants-to-destroy-books/

  2. Paul says:

    I have long wondered if the close family ties in Hungarian culture lead to a dysfunctional society because children never grow up. They look like adults, but they think and behave like children.

    This post (and the previous one) makes me think I could be onto something with this theory.

  3. Karl Pfeifer says:

    Paul could you kindly explain why do you believe that those people mentioned above behave like children?
    Do “close family ties in Hungarian culture” lead only in the case of Bencsik and Pozsonyi that they think and behave like children?
    How about the UK are the extreme right wing activist also thinking and behaving like children?
    Or is this limited only to Hungary?

  4. Daniel says:

    I would like to read about the time, when people were talking on Klubradio about killing the president of Hungary.

    That would be really interesting, don`t you think?

    • Karl Pfeifer says:

      Daniel
      Eva S. Balogh has published an article about Klubradio and György Bolgár.

      http://esbalogh.typepad.com/hungarianspectrum/2012/02/new-attacks-on-klubr%C3%A1di%C3%B3-and-gy%C3%B6rgy-bolg%C3%A1r.html

      • Daniel says:

        Karl,

        Do you know what was said on air? because unfortunately this analysis, which is of course very well based on facts (just like those of thecontrarianhungarian are) does not quote it.

        That is unfortunate, isn´t it, Karl? the problem with this is, that it leads us to a discussion which I don´t wanna have. And here is why: i do believe that in any group (be it a political, regional, sports or even a bigger family) you will have people, who are sometimes… well… lets just say: not really good to have in the group.

        But to judge that group by one aspect of that one person is just ridiculous. (that why I brought up the US and Germany as book-burning nations) Zsolt Bayer is not a politician, nor is he a political advisor to anybody or a decision-maker. He is a not that successful editor for a less successful newspaper and a small tv channel. And not even his readers are willing to burn books. Not even jobbik supporters would do that. Maybe flags they would burn :) To find somebody, who is willing to burn books, you would need to go even more to the extreme right, to a group that is not even present in the hungarian parliament.

        Just like hungarians are not like those, who murdered the gypsies. And to be honest: even I don`t think, that the majority of those, who consider themselves leftist supported the use of excessive force against peaceful demonstrators in 2006. (although I have to admit that I have nothing but contempt for those leftist, who stood quite back then and wine about democracy now)

        The problem is, that you don´t really care about the truth. You have an idea and you ignore everything, that doesn`t fit in your expectations and look for any evidence, you can find to support your theory. No, I don´t think the listeners of klubrádió want to kill the president. Or even if they do: we are living in a democratic society, where everyone can express their views. So if the listener thinks, that killing him would be the best thing, he should be able to say that.

        You have to understand: as long, as the left is unable to get back to a political discussion without name-calling, Fidesz wont listen. As long as your arguments about politics starts with nazi, fascists, anti-democratic, racist, anti-semitic and “Bayer said, that…”, you can run the EU or to Zürcher for support, because you won´t find it in Hungary. And even more lucky for us, hungarians: according to the polls the people are also sick of this and they don´t listen either. You should never forget: the left-liberal parties, that were running the country between 2002 and 2010 received the support of about 17 percent of the voters. Their opposition (left and right) received more than 80% of the votes. So in the face of this results I would think twice what kind of language I use about the people and of the country. Although on second thought i do understand their hate towards the “nazi” hungary, which sidelined them without ANY power for a long, long… long, long time…

    • EBE says:

      Are you reading Magyar Nemzet to much lately Daniel? Are you buying into the propaganda to much? Can you tell me where Klubradio talking about killing Schmitt?
      It is clear that a caller say something regarding conspiracy theory and killing of different people (all we know it could of been you), and that Bolgar does not have any part of that. Or you saying that since you brought up the subject of killing Schmitt everyone on this blog is an active participant of a plot that you are theorizing about? I think we should call the police on you right now. My goodness you are suggesting killing Schmitt? I condemn you for suggesting this. I do not agree to kill anyone for any reason. Shame on you.

      Here is the transcript:
      „Hallgató: – És nekem van egy elméletem és nekem van egy elméletem, hogy hogy tudják Schmitt Pált megmenteni.
      CALLER: And I have a theory, and I have a theory, about how they can save Pal Schmitt.

      Bolgár György: – Na.
      BOLGAR: Go on.

      Hallgató: – Ez elmélet. Ha likvidálják.
      CALLER: It is a theory. If they execute him.

      Bolgár György: – Juj, ne is mondja, ne is mondja tovább. Tehát…
      BOLGAR: Yack, do not even tell, do not even tell any furher. So…

      Hallgató: – De az összeesküvéselmélet működhet. Tulajdonképpen ebben a boszorkánykonyhában mindenre képesek, arra is képesek…
      CALLER: But my conspiracy theory could work. Actually in this kitchen of witchcraft they are ready for anything….

      Bolgár György: – Nem, nem, ezt nem is vagyok hajlandó tovább gondolkodni. Hát ennyire elvetemült…. nem mondom, hogy a világtörténelemben nem létezett, de…
      BOLGAR: No, no, I am not even willing to think about this any further. Well so vicious …. I’m not saying that on the history of the world did not exist, but…

      Hallgató: – Mondjon egy, mondjon egy érvet amivel meg lehet menteni a köztársasági elnök…
      CALLER: Give me, give me one argument that could save the Prseident….

      Bolgár György: – Nem ér annyit. Nem kell megmenteni. Nem ér annyit az egész. Azt lehet mondani, hogy köszönjük Schmitt úr, viszontlátásra.
      BOLGAR: Does not worth it. Does not have to save. Does not worth that much the whole thing. It can be said, thank you Mister Schmitt, goodbye.

      Hallgató: – De ez kevés a baloldal…
      CALLER: But this is not enough the leftist…

      Bolgár György: – Választanak… nem kevés… választanak maguknak egy olyat, aki öt éven keresztül továbbra is köztársasági elnök lesz.
      BOLGAR: They will choose…not to much…they will choose some to themselves, someone who will be the President for an other five years.

      Hallgató: – De attól még, attól még nem tisztázták…
      CALLER: But still, they are still not clarify…

      Bolgár György: – Nem tetszik nekem és nem is hiszem, hogy bármire…
      BOLGAR: I do not like it, and I do not believe that for something…

      Hallgató: – Simán van benne realitás. Higgye el…
      CALLER: It is easily realistic. Believe it…

      Bolgár György: – Nem.
      BOLGAR: No.

      Hallgató: – A Vancsik Zoltán minden alkalommal felszólalt, nem tetszett az arca, eltették láb alól. A Tollár úr…
      CALLER: Zoltak Vancsik spoke up each time, they did not like his face and they got rid off him. Mr Tollar…

      Bolgár György: – De ez, hogy eltették láb alól, ez ugye az összeesküvéselmélet…
      BOLGAR: But this, that they got rid off him, it is of course a conspiracy theory…

      Hallgató: – Igen, persze…
      CALLER: Yes, of course…

      Bolgár György: – Márpedig az eddig bizonyítható tények azok voltak, hogy valami miatt a figyelme elterelődött és lesodródott az útról az autópályáról és meghalt.”
      BOLGAR: However, so far what was proven factually is that for some reason something distracted him and he slid off the road.

  5. Karl Pfeifer says:

    Daniel do not repeat here the lies of Magyar Nemzet.
    It was Zsolt Bayer the good friend of V.O. who regretted that at Orgovány the Horthy special murder unit did not kill more poor peasants, communists and Jews.

    • Karl Pfeifer says:

      Daniel I have shown you that your statement about Hungarians not burning books was without foundation.
      Your statement about Zsolt Bayer does not convince anyone but a Fidesz believer. Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung has published yesterday a long article with anti-Semitic quotes from Bayer, who was one of those who organised the pro-Orbán “peace-march”. And Orbán thanked them. So Bayer is not a marginal figure.
      Hungary is a small country in a dire financial situation, it needs help from the EU and IMF and it is spending a lot of money on improving the image ruined by this government.
      Some Fidesz believers think that there is a world conspiracy against Hungary going on, they do not understand that in a non-Hungarian political culture in Western Europe racism and anti-Semitism are not looked on as natural behaviour.
      Like it or not I am not a Hungarian although I lived several years in Hungary and learned the language. Since I write as a journalist 33 years articles published in print and on websites I have the feeling that I can do without your advice and guidance.

  6. Karl Pfeifer says:

    Daniel . I gave you a reply. You said Hungarians did not burn books. I have shown that you were wrong. Hungarians did burn books.
    I am do not agree with your statements but I understood everything you wrote and you received a polite answer.
    Of course there are people in Hungary who believe to be a part of an elite, to be so clever that anybody who does not share their view must be either a Leftist or a moron or both. And you seem to belong to this category. When you have no arguments you imply that others are stupid.
    This is very common with Fideszbelievers, who are like a ghost driver who believes that all the others drive the wrong way. Take care not to smashup.

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